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 Post subject: Inside Barres
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 341
Location: Thousand Oaks
Hi Everyone,

Are there any exercises to train the fingers to do inside barres well. I have always avoided these, and now I am faced with having to deal with it for learning a new piece. What I must do is hold down strings 5/4/3 and let strings 2 and 1 ring open. I can get 1 to ring open, but string 2 mutes from the flesh of my finger. If I lift the finger to high to get string 2 to ring, then string 3 mutes.

Is this a matter of stretching the joint enough so that it will begin to go backward a little?

Donna


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:16 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Severna Park, Maryland
When I used to run marathons I learned the rule "training is very specific". Running fast makes you a better fast runner. Running slow makes you a better slow runner. Riding a bike makes you a better bike rider (if your goal is being a runner, the only thing cross training does is give your running muscles a rest day, which you need sometimes).

When I apply that lesson to guitar I conclude that you are almost always best off making an exercise out of the specific move or skill you need for the piece you are working on. That way you don't have to worry at all whether your exercise you are asking for will "translate" to the piece -- it is the piece. That is the heart of Scott's technique bin. If it the case that you can't to the move from your piece at any speed because of stretch issues, move it up the neck until you can do it very slowly. And then gradually move it back down over the weeks.

But I'm not telling you anything you didn't know, Donna.
Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Inside Barres
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:53 pm
Posts: 155
guitardzs wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Are there any exercises to train the fingers to do inside barres well. I have always avoided these, and now I am faced with having to deal with it for learning a new piece. What I must do is hold down strings 5/4/3 and let strings 2 and 1 ring open. I can get 1 to ring open, but string 2 mutes from the flesh of my finger. If I lift the finger to high to get string 2 to ring, then string 3 mutes.

Is this a matter of stretching the joint enough so that it will begin to go backward a little?

Donna


I have the opposite problem where certain pieces require placing the LH fingers 2,3 & 4 on adjacent strings of the same high fret. E.g., Romanza's B part calls for placing the LH fingers 2,3,4 on strings 3,2,1 respectively at the ninth fret and playing them simultaneously with a RH chord stroke. Because of my fat fingers, when I do this I invariably bend one of the strings sharp. As a result I use a 1/2 bar with my 3rd finger instead.

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-Franklin


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 899
I don't mean to sound cryptic but sometimes it just takes a lot of practice.....

Both problems here are primarily strength issues, not coordination. Playing the passages very slowly builds strength.

I have some interesting exercises in Phase III coming out for the left hand. (Strength and coordination).

I'll keep you posted.....

Scott


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:53 pm
Posts: 155
scott wrote:
I don't mean to sound cryptic but sometimes it just takes a lot of practice.....

Both problems here are primarily strength issues, not coordination. Playing the passages very slowly builds strength.

I have some interesting exercises in Phase III coming out for the left hand. (Strength and coordination).

I'll keep you posted.....

Scott


Not cryptic at all. What I'm hearing is that these types of fingerings are important to master and shouldn't be "worked around". There are some youtube videos of the tiny Li Jie making quick clean transitions between chords requiring enormous stretches. I guess if she can do it so can we ... eventually ...

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-Franklin


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 Post subject: Re: Inside Barres
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:15 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Corvallis, OR
Ouch! That sounds like it will hyper extend the joint too much. I started avoiding those kinds of bars with my ring finger a few years ago because of pain. Personally I would play what you are describing with fingers 2,3, and 4 and not use the bar.


guitardzs wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Are there any exercises to train the fingers to do inside barres well. I have always avoided these, and now I am faced with having to deal with it for learning a new piece. What I must do is hold down strings 5/4/3 and let strings 2 and 1 ring open. I can get 1 to ring open, but string 2 mutes from the flesh of my finger. If I lift the finger to high to get string 2 to ring, then string 3 mutes.

Is this a matter of stretching the joint enough so that it will begin to go backward a little?

Donna


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 341
Location: Thousand Oaks
scott wrote:
I don't mean to sound cryptic but sometimes it just takes a lot of practice.....

Both problems here are primarily strength issues, not coordination. Playing the passages very slowly builds strength.

I have some interesting exercises in Phase III coming out for the left hand. (Strength and coordination).

I'll keep you posted.....

Scott


This made a lot of sense to me, so I started thinking in these terms. I also consulted with some electric "god" type players to get their ideas. One told me to think of the finger not as a barre, but as flexible -- like a snake -- and to really work on rolling the finger toward the headstock. Well, the snake thing really helped. When I let loose of the rigid thought of a barre, I was able to be much more flexible with my finger. I am starting to get a clean sound out now as I practice with my "snake very slowly and carefully.

Donna


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